Category: Investments
Air Date: 10.21.2020

Investing is like being in a dark forest with only a lantern to guide you. By staying still, you can only see what’s around you — just enough to take your first steps. By taking action and moving forward, you get further along the path and get to see what’s ahead. Today we speak with career Marine, Brian Briscoe, about the action that he took to become a high-return investor. After chatting about his entry into real estate and how he discovered multifamily investing, Brian talks about the intense learning process he underwent to become an investor. We then dive into Brian’s business philosophy, touching on where he invests along with his investing model. We ask Brian what he looks for in sponsors and in underwriting and his answers highlight the importance of credibility, and why you should look closely at your property’s break-even rates and reserve funds. Brian discusses how COVID has impacted his portfolio and what he’s done to adapt to circumstances. Near the end of the episode, we ask Brian to share the keys to his success. Tune in to hear what steps have led to Brian’s success and the books that have inspired him to pursue financial freedom.

Key Points From This Episode:

  • Brian shares his journey as a career Marine and real estate investor.
  • Pivoting toward multifamily investing after buying single-family homes.
  • Details about what Brian did to learn about multifamily investing.
  • Top reasons why Brian invests in commercial multifamily real estate.
  • Hear why Brian’s group looks for deals in South Carolina.
  • Brian discusses his investment group’s ‘forced appreciation’ business model.
  • The importance of investing with credible partners.
  • Red flags and what Brian looks for in good underwriting.
  • How COVID has impacted Brian’s portfolio and how he’s adapted to circumstances.
  • Brian shares the one question that you should ask every deal sponsor.
  • Reflecting on the most significant lessons that Brian has learned from his top books.
  • Why taking action has been the number one key to Brian’s success.


“Every time I was at the gym or on the way to work, I was listening to a real estate investing podcast, you know? Every time I bought a book, it was about real estate.” — Brian Briscoe [0:04:30]

“Everything we’re looking for has a forced appreciation or value-add component. Where we don’t have to rely on markets going up. We can come in, improve the occupancy and bring in more money.” — Brian Briscoe [0:10:43].

“Taking action is like carrying a lantern through a dark forest. If you’re stationary, you can only see two or three steps out. That’s enough to take those steps. But then you’re further along and you can see more up ahead.” — Brian Briscoe [0:26:26].

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Kent Ritter

Brian Briscoe on LinkedIn

Brian Briscoe Email

Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast

Four Oaks Capital

Rich Dad Poor Dad

Brandon Turner

The Book on Investing In Real Estate with No (and Low) Money Down

Michael Blank

Rod Khleif

Joe Fearless Best Ever Show

Eric Shirley

Brian Mallin

Todd Butler



The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People

The Miracle Morning

Rich Dad, Poor Dad CASHFLOW Quadrant

If you enjoy the guests and content please subscribe and leave a review.  Your reviews matter and each one has a major impact on the success of the show!

Interested in Investing Alongside me in our next multifamily deal?

Contact me at

My operating partner, Birge and Held Asset Management has a twelve-year track record creating sustainable wealth for over 2000 investors through high-quality multifamily investments.

Thanks for listening!

—Full Transcript Below—

Episode 23

“I remember my dad never made a lot of money, he was a career post office worker. You know, living off of the pension right now. And I remember him telling me multiple times that you know, ‘If I wanted to make money, I needed to learn how to do it. I can’t teach you, that’s one thing I cannot teach you is how to make money because I never cracked that nut.’”


Welcome to Ritter on Real Estate, the show about how to passively invest like a pro. On each episode, I interview real estate experts who give their top investing advice, strategies, and tools that break down the insights and the practical steps to avoid the pitfalls and make better investments. I want to help you passively invest like a pro. This is Ritter on Real Estate, and I’m your host, Ken Ritter.


[0:00:43.6] KR: Hello fellow investors, welcome to Ritter on Real Estate. Where we teach you how to passively invest like a pro. I’m your host Kent Ritter and today, my guest is Brian Briscoe. Brian is a founding member of the investing firm Four Oaks Capital, he’s host of the diary of an apartment investor podcast and active duty lieutenant colonel in the US marines and I’m very excited to have Brian on today. We’ve made fast friends over LinkedIn over the past few months. And, you know, really enjoyed the content that he’s putting out. And excited to have him here to talk to us today about him and his group and how they invest. With that, yeah, hey, —

[0:01:17.6] BB: — Kent, thanks a lot for having me on the show and you know, I echo the sentiment towards you. You got some great content out there, you know. I listened to several episodes of the podcast when it came out. You know, really liked what you guys are doing and you know, I think I should be interviewing you on a podcast instead of the other way around. So, here we go.

[0:01:33.7] KR: We’ll do that soon too, that would be a lot of fun. Yeah, I like to start with just giving our listeners an understanding of your background, you know, what’s your story, how did you come to real estate and just go from there.

[0:01:46.0] BB: Yeah, you mentioned in the bio, I’ve been 19 years in the marine corps and you know, I didn’t intend on making the marine corps a career, you know? If you had told me 20 years ago that I’d be a year from retirement, you know, I would have laughed at you to be honest with you. But I got into the marine corps, I had ambitions prior to that of being a college professor, you know?

I got into the marine corps right after September 11th and basically, started looking at finances. I remember my dad never made a lot of money, he was a career post office worker, you know, living off of the pension right now. And I remember him telling me multiple times that you know, “If I wanted to make money, I needed to learn how to do it. I can’t teach you, that’s one thing I cannot teach you is how to make money because I never cracked that nut.”

I remember as a 25 year old guy stationed in Okinawa, Japan, reading a lot of books about money, about real estate. And things like that and like everybody says, very cliché, I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, right? I started thinking, “Okay, what can I do to start growing that passive income, what can I do to start purchasing assets?” I realized, as long as I’m in the military, I’m going to move every two to three years, you know? Every time I move, I’m going to buy a single family house.

Picked up a handful of single family homes, when and where it made sense over several years. And you sell those houses, they appreciate, you know, quite a bit in that time. And I kind of caught sight of what real estate could potentially do. Got into several deployments, you know? Kind of lost focus on the real estate aspect. But about two to three years ago, I was on another deployment. and I had a lot of time to think. And I realized, for the first time I really saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I had always planned on using real estate as something to augment my military pension and be able to be financially free.

I realized that I was still way far away from that. So started looking at ideas, you know, how can I ramp this up? You know, two degrees in math, pretty good at spreadsheets, I started spreadsheeting. I’m like, “Okay, single family homes, let’s say I buy one per year, how long it’s going to take me to make X amount of passive income. My gosh, that’s way too long, all right, two single family houses a year? How long it’s going to take me to make X amount of passive income.”

Wow, that’s still way too long. Okay, three single family — I realized really quickly that you know, it was going to take forever using the single family house model. Or I’d have to do 10 to 20 a year. I started looking at other things and you know, lo and behold, I picked up a book by Brandon Turner, BiggerPockets book about buying a 24 unit. I’m like you know what? That is something that I could do.

That is something that I can work at. From that moment on, every time I was at the gym, I was listening to Michael Blank or Rod Khleif or a Joe Fearless podcast, you know? On the way to it from work, I was listening to podcasts, you know? Every time I bought a book, it was about real estate, multi-family in general. Got into the Michael Blank coaching program and you know, I would say that’s a really solid program. Had a really cool mentor who had walked me through a lot of the processes. And, along the way, I met some great people, you know, Eric Shirley, Brian Mallin, Todd Butler. So, the four of us are — comprise Four Oaks Capital which is our company and we’ve now have four apartment communities, total 168 units under our belt.

[0:05:13.9] KR: That’s great and congratulations in first and foremost, 19 years in the military, I mean, congratulations and thank you for your service. I mean, it’s impressive, that’s a big thing that. To join, especially after 9/11.

[0:05:25.7] BB: I appreciate that.

[0:05:27.8] KR: Absolutely. Real estate wise, I mean, that’s impressive, you’ve gone down this path, your eyes opened to — that the single family method wasn’t going to get you there. That led you to multi-family, you educated yourself, I think you did a couple of key points that I like to call out. You spent the time to educate yourself and you did your own education, the podcast in the books. And then you found a mentor in the Michael Blank program. And that, I’m sure. accelerated your  growth. And got you to where you got to the point where you felt confident enough to go out and actually start buying multi-family and larger multi-family, right?

You found the right partners through that and that’s gotten you to where you are today. So very impressive. What was it that, I guess, what was it as you were looking at multi-family? I mean, we talked about just the — being able to buy more units. But what was it about that versus, you know, maybe it’s office or industrial or self-storage, what led you to multi-family in particular?

[0:06:21.2] BB: First of all, everybody needs a place to live. I mean, there’s a basic human need — I took a psychology class in college and I hated most of it. But one thing that I really latched on to was like the Maslow’s Hierarchy, you know? Where you have some very basic needs that have to be met. And shelter’s one of those basic needs. Everybody needs shelter, everybody needs a place to live.

When you look at retail, you know, 20, 30 years ago, Walmart crushed main street. You know, they used to have all the main street shops, Walmart came in, actually was a little longer than 30 years ago but came in and just you know, main street died out. And then there was another big disruptor, Amazon came in and disrupted the industry.

Retail I think, you know, every 10 to 15 years or even less, there’s some big disruption to how things happen. Industrial, you know, goes on ways. But I think multi-family is the steadiest out of all of them, just because everybody needs somewhere to live, you know? The other thing I like over the single family is its commercial real estate so it’s — the value’s based on cold hard numbers and not sentiment.

It’s not like, 2004 to 2007 where real estate caught fire from no real reason besides people wanting to buy. You know, people wanted to buy and take part of the action. That doesn’t happen in commercial real estate. I think it’s steady and it’s something that everybody needs. So there’s always going to be a supply and demand, you know, there’s always going to be high demand for the assets. And you know, if you purchase right, if you find areas of the nation that are growing, both in population and economy, it’s going to be a very solid investment for years to come.

[0:08:00.4] KR: Absolutely, I could not agree more. At Four Oaks Capital, tell us a little bit about your strategy, you’re in multi-family but where are you buying, what are you buying and why?

[0:08:13.1] BB: First question I’ll answer is the where. We like the Carolinas. The area we like the best out of Carolinas is upstate South Carolina. You know, a lot of people, you are probably not — a lot of people who have never been in the southeast are probably aren’t familiar with it. But you have a big city Charlotte on one side, you have Atlanta and Georgia on the other side, right? Both these cities, every time you see a top 10 list of what economies are doing the best, what cities are growing the fastest, Atlanta and Charlotte are almost always both on every single list.

No matter what metric you use, you know? There’s a freeway, I85 between the two cities and it goes through South Carolina. That part of South Carolina, everything that is making Charlotte and Atlanta grow is also making upstate South Carolina grow. You know, you’ve got a lot of money that’s going from north to south, you know, demographically in the nation, you got money going from California inward. And you got money from New England going south, you know?

In general, it’s coastal inward. And on the east coast side, it’s from the north to the south. But all the southern states are benefitting from all these high cost of living paid places. People are leaving the high cost of living places. They’re leaving the big cities and trying to find a little more bang for your buck. And South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida, east of the Mississippi are the states that are growing the fastest.

That’s why we like the area. Also, it’s South Carolina, there’s not a city over a million in South Carolina. So it doesn’t have a lot of focus. There’s a lot of people who are looking in Charlotte, there’s a lot of people who are looking at Atlanta — because they’re big cities. So most South Carolina, it’s a secondary market so there’s actually a little less competition there. You have the exact same dynamics that are fueling growth in Charlotte and Atlanta, a little less competition and we can still get pretty good deals.

What we’re looking for, just like most other syndicators, we’re looking for the traditional value ad. One of the properties we purchased had a little bit of hair on it, so to speak. You know, we bought the property at 60% occupancy. We’re going through the process of renovating it and bringing it up to 100% occupancy.

We’ve got another property that was an 80 unit. I mean, by the books, it was 80 unit but eight units were down. Absolutely unrentable, some of them taken down to the studs, you know? No sinks, no air handlers, no ACs, anything. We’re taking that one and we’re renovating, we’re bringing those eight units up to rentable and we’re renovating the rest of the apartment building with it.

Everything we’re looking for has some sort of forced appreciation, some sort of value add component on it. Where we don’t have to rely on markets going up, we can come in and improve the occupancy, improve the asset and bring in more money. Our plan isn’t so much focused on the rising tide, our plan is focused on finding assets where, even if the tide isn’t rising, we can still force some appreciation. And then, if we get the extra appreciation from the rising tide in the coming years, you know, even better.

That’s the general philosophy. As far as unit size right now, we started somewhat small, I mean, our smallest — smallest in our portfolio is a 16 unit. The largest is an 80. And we’re progressively getting larger as we scale. You know, we didn’t want to go from zero to 500 units just because that’s a huge jump. We started small and we’re progressively getting bigger and bigger. And, you know, next one, we’re looking for something triple digits unit count now.

[0:11:49.8] KR: Got you. It sounds like the theme is you guys are willing to buck the trend a little bit. You’re upstate South Carolina, you don’t hear a lot of people focused on that, like you said, but you’re going there because there’s relative values and the competition is less, right? To add to that, you’re willing to take on deals with a little more hair on them, right? Then just stabilized properties, you guys are going where others aren’t. And you’re taking deals that others don’t want and because of that, you’re able to provide a significant value, I’d imagine.

[0:12:19.7] BB: Yeah, that’s you know, I think it’s a solid philosophy, solid plan and demographically, the numbers back it. When you look, I mean, COVID’s changed things a little bit as far as you know, announcements. But upstate South Carolina, I always get automated emails from a website every time new jobs were created or new companies are coming down.

It was a daily basis where a company would say, “We’re bringing a billion dollars’ worth of investment into the city. We’re going to build X and Y and we’re going to employ this many hundreds of people and every day.” We were getting similar announcements, you know? Whether it was hundreds of millions or into the billions of dollars of investment going in there. You know what? Like I said, there’s a lot of dynamics down there that are very conducive to more people in that area, which creates a supply and demand problem.

Honestly, I think COVID’s going to kind of make the supply and demand problem a little more imbalanced because a lot of developers just stopped in their tracks, you know? You still have people who are looking for homes and once the economy gets it back on track, I think the supply and demand problems are going to be even more imbalanced, where there is even less supply for higher demand.

End of the day, I think yeah, it’s a little bit off the beaten path for what most people do but we’re still operating in MSA, that’s got roughly a million people.

[0:13:38.4] KR: Got you. So as the listeners look to vet sponsors and they look at vet deals and make investments, what are some of the things from your experience that you can tell our investors, to help them make better investing decisions?

[0:13:53.3] BB: You know, I had a lot of people that call us and talk to us about things and I think the investors should focus more on the partners than on the actual deal. You know? The philosophy is like this, “If you’re going with people who have a very solid track record, and who put their investors first, then they’re going to be very selective on the deals that they put on their contract.” I have a couple of guys who have called me on every deal that we’ve had and been just going over numbers and — “Wait, you’re modeling rent increases right here, why is that?”

They’re going line by line down our proforma and saying, “hey, can you verify this?” Personally, I think that’s not the right approach in investing, you know? I can put numbers on a spreadsheet, anybody can put numbers on a spreadsheet. Anybody can put numbers on a proforma but I think really what you should be focusing on is the partnership, you know?

Can you trust the partners? Do they have a track record? Do they have enough experience to be able to perform in what they are saying they are going to perform? So that is probably number one, is look at people who are offering more than you look at the actual deal itself.

The deal is going to make sense for you. I mean if you are looking for cash flow and the deal is not a cash flow deal, you know you also have to look at that. Yeah, number one look at the people and then look at the deal.

[0:15:12.7] KR: I think that is great advice. It’s advice I have given multiple times in this show. So that is a little, and I hear people echo that because — I mean you’re right, it’s, a bad sponsor can kill a good deal, right? So I think it does start there. As you get into the deals though, I mean what are you guys seeing as you are underwriting? What are the things that you are focused on? What are any red flags that you can give our investors advice on things to look out for as they are looking at the numbers?

Because you do want to start with a sponsor but eventually you got to get to the market and the deal, right? So can you help them understand a little bit about how you’re looking at things?

[0:15:48.3] BB: Yeah, I think you need to make sure that, I’d say number one, you know a sponsorship that runs out of cash is going to be in a world of hurt. So make sure they have a substantial — you know that’s a value add and make sure they have a substantial capital expense budget and make sure they have a substantial reserve fund, you know? So I think the industry average is probably just two months’ worth of expenses, one month’s income in reserves.

You know during COVID you might want to ask, “Hey what do you have in your reserves and how long can that last?” Make sure they have done the numbers on that one. I think right now, you know the question that I am getting asked a lot is, “What about COVID?” So ask them about a break-even occupancy number on that one and I think that really helps. You know we looked at our break-even occupancy and for a deal that we’re running right now, it is mid-60s.

You know, so we could take vacancy, you know, we don’t plan on it but if things got really bad and economic vacancy went down to 65% — we are still paying our bills, you know? And that is before we dive into our reserves. So look at break-even occupancy points, right now, look at reserves and look at the cap X budget. I was sent a proforma by a group of people that I met and know pretty well. And they had, you know a 120 unit — you know I don’t remember how many units in the property.

But it was a 100-and-something unit property. And their cap X budget, it was a value add play where they are going to renovate every unit. They are going to redo the roofs and the siding, the asphalt and their overall capital expense budget was like 450, 500,000. You know I started scratching my head, I’m just, “How are you going to do all of that?”

[0:17:26.7] KR: It doesn’t sound like enough, does it?

[0:17:28.7] BB: Yeah, I mean they were probably 50% short of their goals. They had half the amount they probably needed to do the job they wanted to do. So I would say make sure that they have reserves and make sure they have adequate capital expenses. And that is probably, first and foremost, what you want to be looking at and then after that. You can get into the rent bumps and everything else but I think the worst thing to happen to operators right now especially in a COVID environment is running out of money.

[0:17:57.8] KR: Yeah, I think that is great advice and what you are talking about is managing the downside risk, right? Nothing that you just said is — was talking about the upside and what it could be with in a sunshine and rainbow world, right? You are talking about understanding, “How do you manage your downside risk?” And I think, in a COVID environment, I think that is extremely good advice and certainly practical. So I appreciate your perspective there.

You know, knowing that you guys are operating in the southeast and understanding just the COVID environment now and kind of that where the hotspots are, I mean how are you — what are you seeing down there as the impact? Have you seen a collections impact in the southeast and how are you — are you doing anything different to prepare going forward?

[0:18:38.2] BB: Yes, so collections have been strong. You know we have gotten pretty close to what we were getting prior to on collections. Every once in a while, we have a tenant who we are putting on a payment plan, right now. So you know, the eviction moratorium just ended and we are still going to work with people, you know? We are not going to send out eviction notices as soon as we can but what we are seeing is the turn times have gotten a lot longer.

So the rental market, the leasing market is basically dead, as far as where we should be in the summer months. So I think what really hurt our bottom line is, you know we are getting all the collections but when people move out and in most department communities May-June-July are the big months for lease activities. And then also the big months from people move out as well because that is where all the 12 month leases end.

So we had a lot of people move out in May, a lot of people moved out in June, a lot of people moved out in July. And it is taking us longer to fill the units just because the leasing activity is low. So we did have to offer some concessions on some of our properties. You know half month’s off the first month’s rent, things like that. And overall, where we have taken the hit, and this is two out of our four properties, is just we have a higher vacancy rate than we anticipated.

And, you know, it is nothing that we could have foresaw. But you know these two properties are break-even points in the low 70s. And right now we are on the high 80s as far as occupancy. So we want to be low 90s on this property — at least low 90s. But we are about 87%, 88% occupancy on these two properties. So that is really how COVID has affected us, collections are there. I mean people who are in place are still paying rent.

[0:20:25.3] KR: Is it you are not getting the leads that you would typically get or is that the people that are there just aren’t qualified?

[0:20:32.3] BB: So we’re still getting a fair amount of leads. The number of leads has dropped compared to other years at the same time, so there aren’t as many leads. And our property manager is telling us that the leads are very more apprehensive, you know they are asking a lot of questions, a lot more questions than normal. That the closed rate is a lot lower.

And, you know, we have one property manager that has thousands and thousands of units across the southeast. And he is saying that the trend is that the leasing activity is slow. So that’s basically where we are at, I mean fewer people looking and you know when they are looking they are just being a little more selective and a little more cautious on signing leases.

[0:21:17.1] KR: Got you, okay. Well, that’s good perspective. To take it back from an investor standpoint, I would say, I think the thing I would take away from an advice standpoint is as you are looking at a deal, talking with the sponsor, understand what their leasing practices are, understand what they’re doing to generate leads. Understand what they are doing to vet those leads and how they are driving that customer experience through the process.

So I think that is a good take away for our investors there. As we move into the end of the show, we’ve got a section that we do called Keys to Success. And so Brian, I would like to ask you a few questions to understand a little bit about how you have gotten to where you are. And have the success that you have been able to have. So the first question is, for our investors what is the one question every passive investor should ask their deal sponsor?

[0:22:01.5] BB: I think the question should start out with, “What if?” Just like we were talking about managing the downside risk, you know what if, you know whatever your biggest concern is, “What if this happens? What if you are not able to collect during COVID? What if you are not able to get the occupancy you want because of COVID? What if you are not able to sell two or three years from now at the price you want to sell?”

So I think a lot of ‘what if’ questions need to come out just to make sure that the operators have thought about it and have done something to mitigate those risks.

[0:22:33.7] KR: I think that’s great. It goes back to the sensitivity analysis you are talking about, right? Look at break-even occupancy, look at what happens if cap rates aren’t at where you want them to be at when you sell, right? If they are higher and looking at how things change as these things shift. So excellent advice, what are you most proud of in your career?

[0:22:52.9] BB: So right now, I mean I am proud of my 20 year military career, but I am at the transition phase. So talk about my multi-family career, I am proud of Four Oaks Capital, you know? I’ve got three amazing partners, they’re wonderful people. They are all about — they are all true professionals. They were very good in the fields they came from outside of real estate. And I think we make a great team. And I am happy to be a part of it and excited for where we are going here in the future.

[0:23:21.5] KR: And what books should everyone read?

[0:23:23.2] BB: So my favorite book all-time, and I am a religious person, so I would say the Book of Mormon. But I know this is a real estate podcast so what I am going to say is, I would say Rich Dad, Poor Dad was fundamental to me. I think The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey was one of those transformational books. And you know after that, I think there are a lot of other books. I would say, number three would be The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod. I say between those three books, those are probably the books that have had the largest impact on me and how I think.

[0:23:54.8] KR: So a curveball that a question that I just thought of about those books, what was the big takeaway from one of those books that really sticks out to you?

[0:24:01.3] BB: So the Stephen Covey book, there are many, many, many takeaways. But I think the biggest thing with the Stephen Covey book is you know, the seven habits, it’s not earth shattering but it is just things that they all make sense. It’s things that if you do everything and you start doing them in order, it is going to make a world of difference. So very small changes in how you do things can lead to phenomenal outcomes.

So just one of the habits is beginning with the end in mind, you know? Make sure you have a plan, make sure you know where you’re going, you know? So map that out, decide what you want to be and walk towards it. You know one of the other habits is to put first things first, you know? And a lot of people don’t do that. He’s got, like, this little quadrant idea of urgent and important, you know? Work on things that are important.

You know, every once in a while, you have to go into category three tasks, which are the urgent not important tasks. But he focuses on making sure all of your activities are important and that you are less reactive and more proactive. And proactive is another one of his habits. Be proactive in getting towards those goals. So I think he breaks everything down into a framework that’s very understandable and very executable. And just a lot of little pearls in there that keep on coming to my mind over and over and over again.

You know I have read the book. And I’ve got it on Audible. I’ve probably listened to that book 20 times and that is one there. The Rich Dad, Poor Dad CashFlow Quadrant series just really changed my mind on how to look at money. You know like I said, I grew up in a household, you know I thought we were poor. It turns out we weren’t, you know we had food on the table. We never had to worry about being kicked out of the house or anything.

So I had shelter, I had food, I had clothes, I had everything that I needed growing up but you know I think I had the poor dad mentality on money. And Rich Dad, Poor Dad made me look at things a little different and realize that once again, small changes in my mindset could actually reap a phenomenal reward over the years.

[0:26:07.5] KR: That’s great, thank you and then lastly, what’s your number one key to success?

[0:26:12.7] BB: I would say just taking action. You know, I think that there is a lot of people that get stuck in this analysis paralysis, they call it. You know I think you just need to learn enough to where you can just take a step. You know, one analogy that I like is carrying a lantern through a dark forest. If you are stationary, your lantern only sees five or eight steps out but you know that is enough to take two or three steps. You know you take two or three steps and now all of a sudden you can see two or three steps further, you know?

So it is just one of those things. You get to a point to where you can see the next three or four steps clearly. And then take two and then you are at a point now where you can see once again in the next three to four steps very clearly. And you just take the next step every time. So I would say just learn and then immediately put things into practice.

[0:27:03.5] KR: I like that. Thank you so much Brian. It’s a great advice and how can our guests get a hold of you if they want to reach out more and more?

[0:27:12.1] BB: So I think the best way, you know we have a podcast, Diary of an Apartment Investor, you mentioned that upfront. It is available on all podcasts apps. So that is one way through the podcast and then number two email, you know or our website,, pretty simple.

[0:27:30.9] KR: That’s great and I have personally listened to Brian’s podcast and I would recommend it. So I suggest you guys go out and give it a listen. It’s got a unique format, he brings on an experienced investor and a newbie investor and the dialogue that goes back and forth is interesting, and also pretty entertaining sometimes. So I think it is a great format, it’s unique.

[0:27:50.8] BB: Here is one of the unintended consequences. I had one of the experienced investors email me about 10 days ago and say, “I really like the guy that you paired me up with and we are looking for ways to partner,” you know? So I thought it would be a good idea for a podcast. But you know, there are a lot of connections there being made and I’ve had a couple of other examples, you know very similar where the experience and the aspiring investors are building relationships.

And carrying it on past the podcast. So another aspiring investor emailed me and said, “Hey,” he gave me — you know he opened up his rolodex so to speak and I have four or five people that he has introduced me to. They are just amazing people. So what I am most excited about is really helping people.

[0:28:34.9] KR: That’s awesome. You are creating a great network there, you are providing a ton of value to people. So you know yeah, you never know when you start something, right? You said, take a couple of steps and you never know where it is going to go. So that is a great example of that. Well thanks Brian, I appreciate it so much for coming on the show. It was great content. I think, really valuable for our investors and like I said folks, go out and listen and with that we’ll wrap it up. Thank you again.

[0:28:58.4] BB: Thanks a lot, I appreciate it.


[0:28:59.8] KR: Thanks for listening to another great episode or Ritter on Real Estate. Hit the subscribe button to make sure you don’t miss out on the content that will make you a better investor. Also, visit for articles, videos and tools curated just for passive investors. Until next time, this is Ken Ritter on Ritter on Real Estate. Now go out and invest like a pro.